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Oct 30

Fine Until Fine-Tuned: Repeated Solutions Make Reasoning Fragile

Recipes such as s1 and LIMO teach a model to reason with little data by showing it the same thousand or fewer worked solutions many times over. Judged when that training ends, the repetition looks harmless. But reasoning models are often trained again, and we find that repetition leaves their reasoning fragile to that next stage, even when the stage has nothing to do with reasoning. We fine-tuned Qwen3.5-9B-Base on its own correct solutions to competition math problems, either drilling a few hundred of them about eight times each or showing many more once; with the same amount of training, both solve about 95% of held-out problems. A single pass of ordinary instruction tuning leaves the once-trained model where it was, while the drilled one falls to 86.0%, and harsher later stages take it to 59.3% or below. A third model that visited the drilled problems just as often, with a new solution at every visit, was unharmed, so the damage comes from seeing the same texts again rather than from having few problems. The break recurs with a stronger model's traces, in further training runs and on other models and tasks. It is also cheap to undo: the reasoning is suppressed rather than erased, and five updates of reasoning training bring almost all of it back, as does brief training on the reasoning format with almost no mathematics. Fresh solutions prevented the damage, and so did replaying 6.25% of the original solutions in a gentler later stage, so our claim concerns later training without such replay. Sharpening alone does not explain the break, since a model sharpened three-quarters as much without repetition was unharmed. On a skill the base model could not perform within a token budget, repetition mainly cost learning.

  • 1 authors
·
Sep 26

VideoMathQA: Benchmarking Mathematical Reasoning via Multimodal Understanding in Videos

Mathematical reasoning in real-world video settings presents a fundamentally different challenge than in static images or text. It requires interpreting fine-grained visual information, accurately reading handwritten or digital text, and integrating spoken cues, often dispersed non-linearly over time. In such multimodal contexts, success hinges not just on perception, but on selectively identifying and integrating the right contextual details from a rich and noisy stream of content. To this end, we introduce VideoMathQA, a benchmark designed to evaluate whether models can perform such temporally extended cross-modal reasoning on videos. The benchmark spans 10 diverse mathematical domains, covering videos ranging from 10 seconds to over 1 hour. It requires models to interpret structured visual content, understand instructional narratives, and jointly ground concepts across visual, audio, and textual modalities. We employ graduate-level experts to ensure high quality, totaling over 920 man-hours of annotation. To reflect real-world scenarios, questions are designed around three core reasoning challenges: direct problem solving, where answers are grounded in the presented question; conceptual transfer, which requires applying learned methods to new problems; and deep instructional comprehension, involving multi-step reasoning over extended explanations and partially worked-out solutions. Each question includes multi-step reasoning annotations, enabling fine-grained diagnosis of model capabilities. Through this benchmark, we highlight the limitations of existing approaches and establish a systematic evaluation framework for models that must reason, rather than merely perceive, across temporally extended and modality-rich mathematical problem settings. Our benchmark and evaluation code are available at: https://mbzuai-oryx.github.io/VideoMathQA

  • 7 authors
·
Jun 5, 2025 1

What Does Privileged Information Add to On-Policy Self-Distillation?

On-policy self-distillation (OPSD) lets a language model learn from a frozen copy of itself that sees an answer or a worked solution. Giving the teacher this extra information seems to offer the student more to learn, but how much does it add beyond distillation itself? To isolate that contribution, we construct AMPLE-Math, a reusable suite of 5,319 mathematical problems with six reasoning views that share the same answer, and compare each view with matched reference-free distillation. With a thinking-enabled teacher supervising direct-response rollouts, reference-free distillation accounts for much of Qwen3-1.7B's improvement under thinking-enabled evaluation, both in domain and on external benchmarks. Evidence for an additional reference benefit is modest in Qwen, strongest for a polished solution, whereas complete traces add two percentage points in SmolLM3-3B at step 50. These benefits depend on the student being trained. At the same checkpoint, replacing short direct-response rollouts with long thinking-enabled rollouts turns gains into losses in both families while the problems, references, and evaluation stay fixed. Teacher profiles and matched loss interventions in Qwen further show that changing token-level supervision can leave student behavior largely unchanged. Together, these findings suggest that OPSD can improve access to existing reasoning capabilities through parameters shared by direct-response and thinking-enabled inference. The value of a privileged reference is what it adds to this cross-mode transfer, not how much of the solution it reveals.